ninjabee.com

http://indiearcade.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... -kaloki-x/

main site - http://indiearcade.wordpress.com/

The reason I started this site was because of this game actually. I'd tossed around with doing a more selective / hardcore indie gamer site. One that didnt review 500 puzzle games for example, but it wasn't till I finished Outpost Kaloki (originally making myself play *everything* that was on there to check out the competition ) that I really thought there should be a site that focused specifically on XBLA and spotlighting things for hardcore gamers to try rather than to have to wade through a lot of old games and Uno. I merged that idea with the more general PC hardcore indie site idea.

You guys were the inspiration and how I found my way onto this forum in the first place anyway, I'll probably just launch the site sometime this weekend. My artist is finally on the ball so I've been pretty deep into XNA dev.

Future plans - downloadable content reviews too. I could probably start that with Love Story but I haven't the points for Challenge of the Gods.

Btw one thing I was considering doing an editorial piece on is the name of the game, along with some of my other favourites like Suikoden. Outpost Kaloki frankly is a name that doens't make people want to try it.

It sounds like katamari damacy, tells you nothing about the game, has no western appeal. I almost missed this game entirely mainly because a) the name made it sound like parappa the rappa or puyo puyo, space channel 9. All it told you about the game was that it was likely a novelty game b) looked like a sim game with an extremely cluterred interface that you'd have to work at to learn i.e. the top bar with all the patrons.

I almost didn't try it either, again unless I'd pushed myself to. Unfortunately this is a game that you won't know you'll like until you play it, and until you actually see/use the interface in action and realise in practice the UI is practically transparent. When I try to explain the game to people the name doesn't exactly grab them or roll off the tongue either. Kaloki basically has no meaning to the game world and seems to have been just a project name so it wouldn't have been much to adopt something better. I'm sure this is contributing to the slow "impulse" uptake, its a bit late to change the name now but it's something to consider for future games.

fathamburger,

Many thanks for the very positive review! I'm glad you liked the game! I'm particularly happy with your comments on the downloadable content and trial experience, since a lot of thought went into those.

I appreciate your feedback on the name. We actually spent quite a bit of time coming up with the name Outpost Kaloki. And I can assure you we got a ton of flak for it. None of our business partners (PC portals, Microsoft, etc.) appreciated the name at first and many suggested strongly that we change the name. And, honestly, they had great arguments for doing so! We certainly did consider the whole thing carefully.

But none of the arguments addressed a key thing we were trying to accomplish: Kaloki is now a (somewhat) known brand. If we had named the game "Space Station Sim", or something similar, nobody would remember the name. We could make a game called "Space Racer" and you'd have no idea that it was the same license or dev team. But if we make a game called "Kaloki Racer", you'll immediately know it's from the same team and probably happens in the same universe as Outpost Kaloki.

This is what we wanted, but clearly it came at a cost. People don't instantly know what the game is about, and the name itself doesn't encourage them to play it.

Was it worth it? Man, I don't know yet! I'll let you know after we make Kaloki Racer.

By the way, if you have a chance I'd love to hear what you think of Cloning Clyde, our second Live Arcade game.

Thanks!

Ooh, Kaloki Racer... when could we expect some napkins?

Am I the only one who actually wants Kaloki Racer to be released?

Heh, you know I'd love to put my money where my mouth is and suggest a better name.. I definitely wouldn't go with Space Station Sim though, but I would have kept the Space Station or Outpost part and maybe have gone with something more mysterious...

Space Station Aurora? Outpost Icarus? Space Station Rustbucket Outpost Spit and Piano Wire

It's just the Kaloki part that I think makes it unappealing, it sounds a like a lot of gimmicky games that have come in the past. Why did you guys go with Kaloki anyway, any particular meaning?

Yup I do intend to do a writeup on Cloning Clyde. Ive only written up half of my game list so far, will do the other half after I finish up and launch the site to give people a reason to come back With Clyde though, unfortunately I can't be half as complimentary, although it did make my list as a "hardcore gamer recommendation". It's just a personal taste thing, I've grown out of platform games but I plan to put myself back into my 14 y/o shoes when I do the write up. I'll drop you guys the link once its done

That was interesting to hear that your business partners had reservations about the name. It sounds like the final choice was ultimately your company's, but how much influence do your business partners get during the creation of a game?

Outpost Kaloki had been out on the PC since 2004; was that a big consideration for keeping the same name? I do remember reading a review of OKX on-line, applauding the fact that you didn't add a "Sim" moniker to the game's title.

Game Titles are only worth what the game can invest into it. "The Legend of Zelda" and "Kingdom Hearts" are not particularly noteworthy game titles, until you consider their heritage. For all a name implies, "Heavy Weapon" could be asteroids and "Small Arms" could be a clapping game for dwarves.

The free trial system should really give creators free reign over all design aspects. I'll play anything for free, whether it's "AZM" or "Die! Monkey Die!" or "The Worst Game Ever." And if I like it, I'll definitely buy it.

Sounds like Kaloki Racer is a long way off =) But I'm still looking forward to your next upcoming title. I wonder what the process was for confirming this game's final name?

If it was similar to Mario Kart, definitely!

We value feedback and advice from various people. Microsoft certainly has a lot of influence in how our Live Arcade games turn out, and their advice is good. But we have the freedom to pursue our own creative vision as long as it doesn't violate a policy or certification requirement.

In the PC Indie world, nobody can tell us to do anything, and we almost entirely follow our own counsel (with feedback from the team and various playtesters and focus groups). But then, nobody has to put our game on their site, either.



Yeah, we got both praise and criticism for the name. And yes, we were quite motivated not to change the name for the Xbox version. Well, beyond adding an X to cleverly indicate the extensive X-tra content! Other names we considered were "Outpost Kaloki Extreme" and "Outpost Kaloki Pro" and "Outpost Kaloki II Alpha Prime: Urban Harvest".



I agree. It's quite easy to find successful counterexamples to the argument that names should immediately indicate what the game is about. Halo, Katamari, Settlers of Catan, Mario Bros, Kid Icarus, etc. I sometimes find solace in this fact. But it doesn't mean it's always the right thing to do to pick a weird name. It just means it's not the most important issue.



Haha, would you really play "The Worst Game Ever."? I think I'd at least read a review first.



Do you mean the name "Band of Bugs"?

We went through a hundred or so names, tried to evaluate the psychological impact of each (does it explain what the game is? Does it convey the right feel? Is it short and sweet? Does it sound bad in a common language?) and even if we liked a name, we had to be sure the name wasn't being used already and we could buy the .com for that name.

For Outpost Kaloki (answering fathamburger's question here): We did pretty much the same thing, but with a more aggressive focus on creating a completely unique brand/IP name. We needed to be sure that we could "own" (at least in terms of google searches) that one word. The actual choice of the word was complicated, and involved looking at the meaning of words in other languages including (not kidding!) Japanese and Fijian.

Fathamburger: I like the names "Space Station Aurora" and "Outpost Icarus". They don't meet the criteria we used at the time, but they're pretty cool!

This is a great thread so I had to post...

I remember talking to you about the name issue before stay and I can imagine how that is a difficult decision. That said, I just love the word "Kaloki".

All this speculation about Kaloki spinoffs (yes I'd play a Kaloki racer) had me imagining a really great Kaloki style adventure game a la the venerable Space Quest series. Oh how I miss typing the same command in slightly different ways 50 times before I could successfully pick up a damn rock!

Kaloki was pretty cool to me. I actually was more interested in some previews of the game online because of the interesting name.

I don't think I can really remark about the name's attracting-ness. The real thing that attracted me was the amount of games in the Strategy and Sims section of Live Arcade.

I love the name "Kaloki", it just sounds good





that should definetly be the name for the sequel

Yup, but one factor to consider is that indie games that make their living off of portals are competing with a bunch of other generic games. Unlike a mainstream game where there are reviews, tv spots, trailers, promos etc to find out what it's about, an indie game often has just it's name to go by. On XBLA what's the first thing you see when you go into the menu, just the name, you click on it, more info gets you maybe a couple of words. No screenshot, nothing to help you decide to try the game. Often the banner is the most descriptive thing there and the closest to a screenshot you're going to get.

Same for something like Real Arcade. One of the things I've always hated about it is, they genre-ise the selection but the initial screen is just a name listing, you have to click on all of them to see the screenshots/info. So, how do you wade through the trash? click on the most interesting sounding ones to you. That's why I think as far as indie games go, the name carries a lot more weight than retail.

For example Diner Dash, I think one of the reasons it succeeded was the name. Not many games about Diners out there and Dash implies some sort of arcadey puzzle game. I know I was drawn to it when I saw it. Its arcadey so a normal gamer might like it, puzzley so it may appeal to the office worker/housewife.



Hm thats an interesting decision. I never thought about "Owning" the search. That has its plusses and minuses I guess. If you are in a genre with lots of competing games then I can see how owning it would be better. You dont want a competitor's game popping up alongside google with better ratings, but at the same time you miss out on "incidentals" as in someone looking for a genre or competitor's game and finding yours instead. I know that's happened to me several times. In this case I think Kaloki is still too unique for that and would probably be the best game of its class anyway

Speaking of which, just for fun what do you guys think of Space Station Tycoon lmfao. You know I'm not sure if there's even licensing involved with Tycoon, a lot of games unrelated to the main Tycoon franchise have stuck it on to cash in.

The reason I got this game was because it was the first on XBLA that was a tycoon/sim that I had noticed. I was just scanning the list and "Outpost" caught my eyes. I used to play a game called outpost on my pc when I was younger so it instantly took appeal. Then Kaloki is something I have never seen before. It added something that from reading this post was actually meaning to be implemented into the name - what you was aiming for. That's what I thought, I don't think I could ever mix this game up with any other (would be impossible). I like how you actually put depth into the name of the game. Some companies don't seem to even do that.

I know this is kind of off-topic but also wanted to say what an amazing job you have done on Kingdom of Keflings. Another game that's similar to this. I think I like micromanagement a lot more than I realised. Now that I know who NinjaBee are i'm sure to dive into some more NinjaBee material as soon as I can. Thanks for making such excellent games. You are the best team providing XBL goodies

Thank you!

If you're planning on trying our other Live Arcade games, the current list is:

Outpost Kaloki X
Band of Bugs
Cloning Clyde
A Kingdom for Keflings
Dash of Destruction (free!)

There has been something I've been wanting to ask for awhile, and with this thread being here, along with Space Station Tycoon for the Wii looking extremely dead, will their ever be a Outpost Kaloki 2? It's still my favorite XBLA game, and one of my favorite 360 games overall. Since you guys wanted Kaloki to be a brand name, it would seem like a waste with only one game released.

Now I can understand not wanting to release sequels, and making a new product every time, but it seems like Ninjabee wants or wanted to make another one at some point. So any chance of one being made at some point?

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